Leitmotif

Reason as the Leading Motive

Men, Women, and Breasts

Posted by Jerry on July 10, 2007

Ya know, being gay and all that, I never really figured out the straight male’s fascination with breasts. In my eyes, they were just large chunks of bulbous fat–and quite frankly, large viscous chunks of fat anywhere is simply an undesirable thing.

Despite intense and indepth discussions with my heterosexual counterparts, I was never convinced of how chunks of fat can suddenly become sexually arousing merely by virtue of it being located on the chest (of a woman, of course!). Well, here’s an article that attempts to address my question:

Until very recently, it was a mystery to evolutionary psychology why men prefer women with large breasts, since the size of a woman’s breasts has no relationship to her ability to lactate. But Harvard anthropologist Frank Marlowe contends that larger, and hence heavier, breasts sag more conspicuously with age than do smaller breasts. Thus they make it easier for men to judge a woman’s age (and her reproductive value) by sight—suggesting why men find women with large breasts more attractive.

Alternatively, men may prefer women with large breasts for the same reason they prefer women with small waists. A new study of Polish women shows that women with large breasts and tight waists have the greatest fecundity, indicated by their levels of two reproductive hormones (estradiol and progesterone).

So, basically, men (unconsciously, perhaps) prefer large breasts only so they can distinctly assess its relative sag as an indicator of age. Daaayaam! Well, that makes sense I think. Being gay and all, it matter least to me what age a woman is, so quite naturally I don’t bother looking at her breast as an indicator of her fecundity, sexual virility, or age.

But wait. There is still an unresolved issue. I know that even gay men like to admire big breasts on women–I know I do. I often catch myself doing a double-take on a hot, attractice woman with big breasts; of course, my glance is more of appreciation of beauty and not of sexual desire or arousal, but the question still remains: why do I–a gay man–consider big breasts on women beautiful? Hmmm… they should do a study on this now.

 [P.S. Read the rest of the linked article for some really interesting, funny, and bizarre views.]

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50 Responses to “Men, Women, and Breasts”

  1. Jennifer said

    This is a great post. I ‘ve had this conversation with some gay friends but we had no science to back it up.

  2. You know, I like a big pair of breasts on a hot woman, too. But only for looking at… They’re nothing special to touch. At least, I don’t think they are.

  3. Ergo said

    Jennifer, hi, and thanks for the compliment.

    Luis (L’innommable), obviously there is something special in breasts that make it attractive to touch–atleast for straight men. Although, I’ve touched my fair share of female breasts too.. and I’ve had enough.

  4. Aron said

    Breasts sagging as an indicator of age is a ridiculous notion in my opinion 🙂 Well, for women amd gay men, a nice butt on a man is considered hot. And I being heterosexual, always wonder why, because clearly, the butt has hardly any functional value, as opposed to breasts, which atleast lactate. So you see there, in the same way that the butt is a turn on to gay men and straight women, breasts are for heterosexual women…But *why* we love breasts, that even I don’t know. In the same line, we could ask many more questions, like why hips, thighs, a slight paunch (me that is), smell, pubic hair, etc. etc.
    This however is an interesting thought–purely my theory 🙂 In college, I knew a woman who had huge breasts but no hips at all. So in spite of the big breasts, I didn’t find her hot and many guys i knew didn’t either (although some did). What I think therefore it’s the whole curved look–big breasts (convex), waist (concave), hips (convex)–that’s sexy to heterosexual men…Geez!! I can’t believe I wrote all this!!!

  5. Aron said

    Correction: *breasts are for heterosexual men*

  6. Ergo said

    Aron, LOL! Yea, that’s a little too candid there, don’t you think? Kinda bared it all, eh?

    Your theory about convexes and concaves–despite sounding so techie–is plausible. Women have curves and straight men like curves; as a gay man, I can say I love straight lines and angular planes. But why?? I think that’s the unresolved issue.

    Avadhut, the other (heterosexual) man in my life has his own theory. He believes that since *he* does not have breasts, he is attracted those who do–and incidentally, those who do have breasts happen to be women (I’m not sure what his position on she-males are!).

    So, for him, the fascination with breasts is just that he doesn’t have it (and that he wishes he had??). But, then his theory could be extended to every other anatomical part that one sex has and the other doesn’t. And I’m certainly not curious about the vagina even though I don’t have one–and I’m glad about it.

    So, all that leaves us back to where we started: we simply don’t quite know why certain regions of bulbous fat (like breasts, and like Aron pointed out–the butt) are perceived as sexually attractive.

    Oh, and P.S., Aron, come on.. the butt DOES have a “functional value” ya! Please don’t ask me to explicitly state what it is!

  7. Charlotte said

    I had so much FUN reading this! hahaha! But I disagree with the theory of “fecundity” here! Its ridiculous, as Aron put it.

    I also had a thought: Would Aron find Pam Anderson hot? She’s got zero body mass except in the chest area. She made up of skin and bone and strategically placed silicone. Given that you like the whole package of curves, she wouldnt be hot to you, Aron…but hell, she does qualify as hot to loads of guys all over the world!

    Avadhut also mentioned 2 other sort of valid (and related) points that you’ve not brought up, Ergo: (1) Cultural influence and (2) the fact that breasts are typically covered which brings in that mystery factor, making them desirable things.

  8. Jennifer said

    Good point on cultural influence, heard it said, America is big breast obsessed compared to Brazil ……booty.
    Although, having a son and watching him reach out for any boob when he wanted some…… comes into play somehow.

  9. Aron said

    Well Charlotte, Pam Anderson does have a curvaceous body if you remember baywatch. i think she’s hot too…

  10. Shyam said

    🙂 Never asked myself this question before, naturally its instinct for me and I dont have to judge and choose out of my free will, to logically reach the breasts, as the ones which attract me. I am an animal here hehehe..
    Ergo the leitmotif for this issue needs to be discovered, I bet on a gay to discover this because he will be unbiased 😉

  11. Graham said

    Haha. Good post. I’m not sure I’m totally convinced on this “scientific explanation” though. Strangely enough I just read this article yesterday. I think while it may play a part, probably the bigger part would be our social expectations. As an American at least, bigger breasts are a part of a culturally setup idea of the ideal woman. Obviously we didn’t just choose this idea arbitrarily, but possibly we exacerbated the idea of breasts being an indicator of health which would explain: A) why huge breasts are often attractive to straight men even when they are no longer an indicator of health and B) why as a gay man you might be able to appreciate a good set of jugs even though they aren’t attractive to you.

    No? Yea? I dunno, that’s my hunch on the breast question, on par with “Where is the end of universe?” and “How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsiepop?”

  12. Ergo said

    Ya, Jennifer and Graham make good points about the cultural influences that possibly–in Graham’s words–exacerbate whatever biological penchant there may be for preferring larger breasts. It’s the most plausible explanation because I observed that for the most part, African-American men prefer really large breasts and voluptuous body frames than their caucasian straight counterparts.

    Regarding why I–as a gay man–find women with large breasts attractive (purely non-sexually) might be because I take my cues of opposite sex attraction from the straight men and lesbian women around me; in other words, since as a gay man I’m not properly competent to assess the sexually attractive features of a woman, I observe what straight men and lesbians around me claim and identify as the attractive features of a woman and I take/learn my cues from them–perhaps unconsciously and over years.

    Also, these cues might change depending on the culture in which I am. For example, were I to have been born and raised in China, my notions of female attractiveness might be different, given that straight men in China find different features attractive in their women than men in India.

    I think it works the same way in the case of straight men looking at other men and judging attractiveness: straight men take their cues from women and other gay men in learning what features (in their particular culture) are deemed attractive. These cues guide them in forming their own notions of male attractiveness.

    Now, I include the influence of media when I say that I take in cues from other men and women.

    Finally, yea, I think that article has a lot of silly correlations and unjustified hypotheses–it’s really quite expected from evolutionary psychologists and behaviorists. I like their studies mostly for their amusement factor.

    Shyam, hope my unbiased position has shed some light on the matter, and to your satisfaction! 🙂

  13. Myrhaf said

    Why are straight men attracted to women’s breasts? I’ll take a guess. The attraction lies not in what they are, but what they symbolize: a woman’s sexuality.

    If a man can get to the point that he is touching a woman’s breast, then it is pretty much guaranteed that he will go all the way with her. Breasts are an enticement for sex, and a stage to be achieved along the way of seduction. Once a man has achieved the stage of fondling breasts, then he loses interest in them and his focus moves on to penetration and sex.

  14. Ergo said

    Myrhaf, 🙂 Nice attempt, but I think you may have fallen into a circular argument! To assume that breasts symbolize a woman’s sexuality is already to presume its sexualized nature, i.e., to assume that men find it to be a sexual organ. But that is precisely the assumption we are trying to grapple with here! It’s amazing how the topic of women’s breasts has generated so much speculation! 🙂

    My guess is that since human beings are not born with sexualized concepts in their minds but with psycho-sexual experiences, humans have to learn and integrate what areas of their bodies are sexually erogenous zones. Over time, as a child grows into an adult, he discovers the sexually erotic and excitable parts of his body. Surprisingly, I think Freud might have some insight to offer in his stage of sexual erogenous development–the oral fixation stage, anal fixation stage, etc.

    With regard to the opposite sex, young men grow up to learn that women find their breasts sexually arousing. This is a learned cue that men pick up from women and their surrounding culture: they discover breasts and other parts of the female body that are sexually exciting and over time learn to fixate of these things. (Of course, once you move beyond adolescence and young adulthood, you realize that the *entire* body can be sexually erogenous for both sexes).

    Moreover, since breasts (and butts as well) are the most visible and noticeable features of a fully clothed female body, which are also sexually erogenous zones, men obviously fixate on these features first and scan them to assess sexual desire.

  15. Avantica said

    I don’t know about the breasts, it all seems ridiculous… I’ve found mnay people hot (men and women), and most of them are physically very different! But, I loved the rest of the linked article! Funny! 🙂

  16. Rambodoc said

    As far as physical beauty is concerned, and especially where sexual beauty is concerned, it is all a matter of fat. Yes, that’s right! Fat, by its presence, gives form, contour and feel. Fat, by its absence, does the same (especially in men: more so if you are thinking of conventional concepts of physical beauty). The skin matters to a certain extent, but here it is a more subjective variable: some may like black, some pink.
    Of course, there is the issue of the mind, but that is not the issue here, right?
    This is my second visit to your blog (I am a reader of ‘An Unquiet Mind’), and hope to read more of your thoughts.

  17. Sinus said

    I go off for 3 weeks and this is what you come up with, Ergo! I take offense to the fact that you have “had enough.” User!!!

  18. Ergo said

    Sinus, given that I was (unwittingly) privy to more than an EYE-FULL before you left, it should be understandable why a gay man like me would have “had enough” of such generous samplings of bulbous fat! The image burned in my head will last a lifetime! Oh, and I’m sure you’ll always be around to keep reminding me of it! 🙂

  19. Charlotte said

    Eww. What, did she flash you? This whole thing is reminding me of your incredible curiousity about my own assets back at wrk. I remember you almost prodding them once, lol. And stop calling it bulbous fat, will you? Its gross!

  20. Ergo said

    Charl, are you insinuating that I sexually harassed you at work!?! I’m shocked even by the attempt!

  21. Stiletto said

    Judge women’s age? Oh come on! It’s because it’s a sign of nurture and mothering…and men want to suckle for the rest of their lives!

  22. Priyank said

    GENERALLY speaking Chinese/Japanese wo/men are short(er) in height, have narrow(er)eyes and women have small(er) breasts than their Caucasian counterparts. Wonder why *all* Japanese animes shows portray tall characters, with exceptionally large eyes and women with well endowed breasts (I haven’t seen a naked Japanese guy in the anime shows yet, so cant comment).

    GENERALLY speaking Indians have a much darker skin tone. But I was flipping through the matrimonial ads the other day and was amused to see that all guys wanted ‘tall, fair’ girls.

    So, I must agree with your theory: “I like it because I don’t have it.” Until you offer a better one.

  23. Priyank said

    oops… I forgot to attach the *general disclaimer* with my comment.

  24. Karl said

    This post is great! There are a lot of generalisations though… Nobody seems to want to own their feelings.

    I’m a gay man but I love a pair of firm breasts, to the point of sexual arousal. I can’t explain this with science or references to culture, but I do know that I am definitely gay and that I definitely like breasts.

    When I told my boyfriend I like breasts he (understandably) wanted to know if I like the rest of a woman’s body. I explained that I only get turned on by women’s breasts. I don’t even want to touch them, just have a good look. I’ve never wanted to have sex with a woman, and I’ve never had a crush on one.

    I’m sure there are some other gay men with fetishes for women’s breasts, but I suspect we’re not supposed to admit to that sort of thing…

  25. Ergo said

    Karl, actually you’re not alone in being a gay man with a fascination for women’s breasts. I do too, and by his own admission, L’innommable (comment above) does too. But of course, we just want to *look*.. not really touch or bob it around or anything.

    When you say “to the point of sexual arousal” do you mean to say that you are sexually attracted to female breasts, to the point where you sexually fantasize about them, or get physically aroused by them?? That is slightly more out of the ordinary than gay fascination with a firm set of breasts. Hmm.. interesting though.

    I think it’s pretty unanimous given all these comments that no one’s buying the scientific explanation of attraction toward breasts being motivated by the indication of age.

  26. Karl said

    Hi Ergo, I do mean to say that I am sexually attracted to female breasts, and yes I do sexually fantasize about them and get physically aroused by them. I know that’s something you might not expect a gay man to say, but that’s only because it’s probably rare among gay men. Also, when so many people are trying to work out what it means to be gay, it’s hard to explain that you only want to have sexual experiences with men but you also have a breast fetish.

    I don’t know why I do have a fetish for breasts but I don’t feel the desire to be sexual with a woman. I’ve read plenty of stuff on “boobiesexuals” on the Internet that confirms that there are other gay men who get turned on by breasts, but it doesn’t explain why we have the fetish.

  27. Geetha said

    Hello Jerry,
    I just read this post and I laughed and laughed about how silly the discussion was..
    And then i thought about the issue in question…
    Well..Have u ever wondered why we are clothed..I mean, I am not a nudist nor am I entering into that relm of discussion..but if we were to cloth ourself in the barest minimum..the only parts we cover will be the breasts and the genetals in the case of a women and just the genitals in case of men.Why can’t we walk around with fully clothed arms and legs and the rest of the body exposed.

    Well,if you are to go by what is arousing..I think when a persons most vulnerable parts are exposed one finds it attractive.The bigger the breast the more vulnerable it seems…hence increased excitement.Or it could also be that u brought a person to baring their most vulnerable regions…its ur power over them that arouses..

    Well this is just my theory..
    I strongly believe sex is not in the body..its in the mind..
    🙂
    Geetha

  28. Avadhut said

    Hmmm..Vulnerability. Now that is plausible!

  29. Ergo said

    “The bigger the breasts the more vulnerable it seems…” Aaaack! That’s like the scariest thought for a gay man! In the face of bigger and bigger breasts, it is the gay man who feels scared and vulnerable, not the large breasts! 🙂

    It’s hard not to just laugh off this whole discussion, and only pretend to offer a profoundly intellectual and ponderous response. Hehe. Which is why I am so amused by this discussion, and that it continues to be active.

    Nevertheless, let’s look at the proposition of vulnerability seriously. I think by vulnerable, Geetha is referring not to the connotation of fear but to that of psycho-sexual submission, surrender, or openness. But this would already assume that breasts pertain to sexual excitement, thereby exposing breasts implies sexual vulnerability (or openness, frankness, submission). But that is assuming the conclusion to prove the conclusion. I think this discussion started out with the question–why are blobs of bulbous fat–which breasts are–sexually attractive?

    When it comes to the penis and the vagina, it is clear that they necessarily have to be involved with sexual attraction because they are sexual/reproductive organs (by definition). But breasts are not such an easy case (and, as Aron never ceases to point out, neither are butts). Therefore, to propose a theory of vulnerability as the psychological motivator behind finding breasts attractive, is to presume the conclusion.

    I do think that sexual attraction cannot be narrowed to physical/discrete parts of the body; ultimately, sex is neither only in the body nor only in the mind, for without either, you can’t get sex (hmmmm….). Having said that, the motivator behind the attractiveness of breasts (and butts) is still elusive.

    However, at the risk of coming off as a total pompous, presumptuous, conceited, braggart, I’d say that my earlier comment/theory seems to the most plausible one in this thread so far:

    Since human beings are not born with sexualized concepts in their minds… humans have to learn and integrate what areas of their bodies are sexually erogenous zones. Over time, as a child grows into an adult, he discovers the sexually erotic and excitable parts of his body. Surprisingly, I think Freud might have some insight to offer in his stages of sexual erogenous development–-the oral fixation stage, anal fixation stage, etc.

    With regard to the opposite sex, young men grow up to learn that women find their breasts sexually arousing. This is a *learned* cue that men pick up from women and their surrounding culture: they discover breasts, and other parts of the female body that are sexually exciting, and over time learn to psycho-sexually fixate on these things. (Of course, once you move beyond adolescence and young adulthood, you realize that the *entire* body can be sexually erogenous for both sexes).

    Moreover, since breasts (and butts as well) are the most visible and noticeable (sexually erogenous) areas of a fully clothed female body, straight men (and lesbians) obviously scan these features first and to obtain cues to sexual attractiveness and assess sexual desire.

  30. Geetha said

    I agree with u totally Jerry…u do sound like a total pompous, presumptuous, conceited, braggart.. 😉 , but then for lack of a better argument i will accept that.. 🙂

    Oh ya,I did mean vulnerable as a kind of surrender..
    But then you took the “I strongly believe sex is not in the body..its in the mind..” a bit too literally..I didn’t mean sex can be had without either…

    I read so many of ur posts after my first visit..
    And I am here again to read more..
    I enjoy reading ur blog..
    Take care
    Geetha

  31. Escobar said

    i love tits… i love tits on beautiful women especially with pink nipples… i wanna touch breasts touch them lick them suck them. and the more i lick them they give sweet taste. i love the breast skin…..UMMMMMMM UMM!

  32. Stiletto said

    Pink nipples? Sorry, but, unless you like albino rabbits, brown is better!

  33. satyajit said

    Hey Ergo, important news for u: Pedro almodovar is gay. Pedro Almodovar loves breasts.

    On being asked on the plethora of Penelope Cruz’s cleavage closeups in Volver, he said something like, “Hey, i’m a gay man, and I love breasts.”

  34. Ergo said

    Almodovar is gay?! I knew there was something iffy about his preoccupation with alternative sexual expressions–which forms the motif in many of his movies–but I didn’t know he was GAY! Hmmmm…ugh. The thought of him feasting on the sight of my beloved Gael Garcia Bernal while directing Bad Education makes me angry and jealous.

    Anyway. Reading the latest few comments above makes me cringe at the direction in which this comment thread is heading.*** What does it say about my blog if this post is one of the most popular posts and has enjoyed a very high number of comments??

  35. satyajit said

    it says nothing about yr blog…there’s always an audience for the more palatable matters of the flesh..you’re always more likely to get more comments if you post something funny or sleazy

  36. Jerry,

    I have a slightly different take on why (straight) men are fascinated by a woman’s breasts.

    Long before a boy discovers (when making love) that for a woman, the breasts are an erogenous zone, there’s something else he discovers during puberty.

    He finds when he’s with a (straight) girl, if he simply looks at her cleavage, she will become aware she’s a woman who’s in the presence of a man causing her to know her own femininity by his glance.

    The boy does not look at her breasts the first time because he already knows how she’s going to react. Instead, like the character in Moliere’s play, who talks prose without knowing it, he finds he has done something, which is, shall we say, fait accompli.:-)

    It’s her (subconscious) reaction, which gives him the implicit knowledge that there’s some connection between her physical assets and her psycho-sexual identity.

    And, scientist that he is, he goes where the evidence takes him, which leads him to eventually identify the fact (as rightly stated by you) that a woman finds her breasts sexually arousing.

    Ramesh

  37. riya said

    Hi I wanted to ask something…. i m getting engaged to a good friend of mine next month…. he is gay though. I fell i love with him and then got to know his sexuality but am ok about it and would still live my life with him. He is very nice guy. I m confused now as he is neither treating me like a girl friend or a best friend cos i feel he is hiding things from me which he never used to do before. He seems to be able to live without meeting or talking to me for over a week which i m not able to. I find it hard not to see him or atleast speak to him everyday.. we work at the same place but still all this happens. SOme one who has prior experience in relationship with a gay guy please help….

  38. Ergo said

    Riya, leave him alone and find a man for yourself! He’s gay, it’s the only reason he came out to you in the first place and is now trying to avoid you intently. Get the hint! He doesn’t want you as anything more than just a friend. He’s just too cowardly to actually come out and say it; no, it’s not because he doesn’t want to hurt you, because *this* is more insulting–to ignore and avoid you than face you openly.

    And how can you even agree to such an arrangement–of spending your whole life with a man who could never love you romantically and satisfy you sexually. You should demand more for yourself: have some dignity!

  39. Charl said

    I second that! Oh my god, how could you be okay with it? Riya, honey, I’m concerned! Don’t go wasting your life marrying this man even if he’s you “good” friend! Esp. given his recent behavior, about which I’m willing to take Ergo’s word, since he’d know best.

    I know there’s a serious dearth of awesome men out here, and I feel your pain and all that, but before making such foolish “arrangements,” you need to consider the possibility that you could meet a man who you’ll love and who love you in return!

    If you ask me, if you marry this guy, you’ll have no peace in this marriage; it won’t be good for either of you. Don’t do it.

  40. riya said

    Hey…. i m going to be engaged this weekend… don’t i can stop it but will have to look out ways to resolve things between us. I also realize that i cannot live without him…. i can’t believe i ‘m saying that…. he loves me way too much… but as u say there is certain amount of discomfort between us which we have eradicate to be able to lead a happy life. I m sure once we have more time for each other we will achieve what i want to. Keep posting you views on this as i need some positive vibes towards making this a success. I m sure most of you wouldn’t agree even then do not hesitate to post your views. Thanks Ergo and Charl… much appreciated 🙂

  41. lovefaithtruth said

    well to each her own, and if you are sure that he loves you way too much so be it…but Riya, at least get the post marr., scenario straightened out. Whatcha gonna do when you want it? Are you guys clear that each will go his/her own way for sex? Is that cool?

    And is it cool for you, if he finds another man who seems like a partner to him in all respects, and what if you find someone like that? We know why you are getting into it, but what about him? Why is he mmarrying you? Is it an escape route for him or has he given up? Either way its not good enough

    And have you really truly tried staying together, the best of friendships go kaput when they suffer 24X7, considering u guys even work together…

    And what’s this secret all about? You are considering marriage, instead of talking to us, shudn’t you be asking him? or have you already done that?

    “Advise me on a relationship with a gay man?” What’s that all about? Relationship with a friend is only based on true and honest communication, and he was a friend first then moved on to marr., so where did that frndhsip change,

    Find these answers darling, and may you have the best-est of time with him, wish you all the very best,

    at least honesty precedes your union then, and is not a mere attempt to it, after

    Tk care

    LFT

  42. I"m a liar said

    On The Breasts Thing

    BTW Geetha had started a very interesting line of conversation there but dropeed it mid way, well research (with 1 subject – me) shows that we are attracted per se to the body parts which remain hidden from view.

    Boobs, butt, dick and fanny, all hidden from view — potential to create tremendous interest/excitement/drool

    Face/abs(in women)/arms/hands/feet/hair/neck/ – all visible – drool potential? nothing great

    So is it the desire for the forbidden, for uncovering the secret, and the bigger the secret is, better is the revealing – i know this may be reaching out, but worth a shot, doncha think?

  43. brad said

    yes..pink nipples are the shit. And no, I don’t like albino rabbits?

    hmm. A gay man with a breast fetish? nothing is out of the realm of possibilty with fetishes I suppose. By that same token, could you imagine a straight man with a penis fetish?

  44. brad said

    oh and Pam Anderson is not hot. She has fake titties. I seriously don’t understand what some men like about fake tits. gotta be natural. Id rather have a girl completely flat than be made of plastic and have tits as hard as rocks. You know I always thought they kind of looked retarded, or like cockeyed if that makes sense.

  45. Adin said

    I’ve always been into big, masculine guys, but for some reason Shakira has me all a fluster and full of lustful thoughts. If I were straight, I think I’d be a leg man though. She has a wonderful pair of legs, and she’s hypnotising to watch in the likes of the Suerte (Whenever, Wherever) video. Hmmm, I wonder if I’m trying a bit bi..

  46. bill said

    I am an old man with huge tits. Well so my wife loves me to have sex in my bra. Do you really know that i was a straight built man until i had cancer and they gave me hormones. ya they gave me female hormones. So i guess it was live with titts or die.

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