Leitmotif

Reason as the Leading Motive

Why You Should Not Support Anna Hazare’s LokPal Bill

Posted by Jerry on April 7, 2011

As an Indian, I am not in favor of Anna Hazare‘s Lokpal bill in any form.

Anna Hazare wants to form an autonomous authority that will monitor the activities of politicians and bureaucrats (i.e., the existing government) and hold them accountable for their actions.

Against Anna Hazare

Anti-Anna Hazare

In essence, that’s creating a powerful, autonomous, non-representative authority, with a leader at the helm, who will literally have access to the monopoly power of the judiciary and law-enforcement over the democratic government.

In other words, Anna Hazare wants to institute yet another government and bureaucratic body (a non-elected one) to monitor the current, elected government. This is simply creating an extra-governmental body to do the functions which a proper government should be doing anyway as part of its very reason for existing. When a government goes bad, one should not simply institute another government body on top of it! One should work to fix the current government we have.

Moreover, Anna Hazare’s authoritative body can be susceptible to same risks of corruption and bribery that the central government is mired in.

More importantly, however, his solution has the potential to produce a more insidious form of dictatorial corruption of power because of its non-elective, autonomous, and non-accountable nature.

There is no other solution to corruption other than denying the politicians and bureaucrats a monopoly on the “supply” of the goods and services that they currently control. Which means, we need to kick the government out of every aspect of our private affairs and release the supply of goods and services into private, competitive hands. This will ensure that there is no political monopoly on the services or goods provided and the people will decide what to purchase and at what price (such as driver’s licenses, etc.)

The government should have no role to play in cricket, commonwealth games, building metros, railways, banks, hospitals, religion, marriage, etc.

THE SOLUTION TO CORRUPTION: GET RID OF THE GOVERNMENT FROM PRIVATE MATTERS OF CITIZENS. Ask for LESS GOVERNMENT not MORE GOVERNMENT!

UPDATE:

It is frustrating to see this nation plunged into anarchy by the right-wing fascist dictator Anna Hazare.

His strong-arm tactics cloaked in “Gandhian” garb are shamelessly of the grammar of blackmailers. He is holding a democratically elected government ransom to his demands, effectively undermining the process by which we the people of India chose to elect our representatives in the government–thereby not only insulting us in our face but also mocking the entire process of democracy itself.

How can laws be introduced and passed in a nation if conflicting and contradictory sides both sit on suicide-fasting missions? Who does the government bear the responsibility of saving from death?

Those who think Anna Hazare’s tactics are peaceful do not have a clue about who their hero is. He is the man who encourages punishing alcoholics in his village by flogging them in public; he condones chopping off hands of thieves; he believes cable television should be banned because of its “corrupting” influence on the people. Here is an excerpt from an interview with Anna Hazare:

“…in many things, along with Gandhi we have to look towards Shivaji. Patel committed a mistake, and Shivaji had the man’s hands cut off. This policy of Chhatrapati, in many ways, we have to think about. Hundred per cent non-violence is not possible. Sometimes, even this has to be done, and that is why I have been saying that [corrupt] people should be hanged…” Anna

Read more of where this came from: Open Magazine’s brilliant article Spare Us the Gandhian Halo.

I highly recommend the following articles for their clarity of thought and analysis, which is unfortunately missing from the current crop of un-thinking, uncritical Anna followers.

FAQ: Why Anna Hazare is wrong and Lok Pal a bad idea

Jan Lok Pal is no solution

Chasing Black Money: In search of red herrings

81 Responses to “Why You Should Not Support Anna Hazare’s LokPal Bill”

  1. Freeda Scudder said

    True. What Anna Hazare is asking for is in all likeliness a dictator-like/ head-master government to monitor the corruption in the current government. Which in all practical purposes will not see the light of day, or the proponents might likely concede to become an advisory board of sorts. However, the current government should realize that this generation is capable of rising up in unison, giving a feel of a civil war, if the situation arose. In other words, a veiled threat to the current government to shape up or ship out.

    • Efby Antony said

      Your analogies are invalid. A dictator/headmaster can create/amend/scrap the policies of a country/state. Whereas this bill is seeking power for the citizens to punish the corrupt. Beyond that the Lokpal will not have any dictatorial power to create/amend/scrap the laws or policies of the country.

      • Amit Kumar said

        When a authority can control people who can reate/amend/scrap the policies of the country/state then how you can trust that authority ?

      • Efby said

        Amit, the control is only in the form of investigating corruption charges. So the charged people can very well challenge the charge in High Court and fight the corruption charges. So there is no trust involved here. This is about giving more power to the citizens to investigate the financial dealings.

  2. Jatin said

    I agree with your views in the post and I think we need to probe the behaviour of all the parties associated with the issue to get a better understanding…

    1. a great mass of people that are supporting this issue have no philosophical understanding of the phenomenon of corruption, functioning of government in a mixed economy and it’s repercussions which even shape the morals of people and these morals are not based on any sound rationale but are adopted just because they are traditionally passed on… here no one looks at the fundamental issues of the need of change in politico-economic system as they are all pseudo-radicals without the realization that any revolution based on consensus rather than reason, is bound to end in a loop as the societal hierarchy will not go away but would just be established in a form seemingly different from existing one… which in this case would be the lokpal and then again down the string… the basic issue with corruption is that in a government controlled economy, regardless of the extent of control, corruption will persist as it’s human tendency to gain profits within the existing framework through manipulation of laws or officials because they see the scope for it… while in a purely free market system, the inherent nature of the system takes care of these problems and no superficial remedy of one bill or one authority replacing another one is required…

    this particular case is a classic example of how the populist stands and arguments are justified on the grounds of consensus and thereby ‘obviously’, without any need for logical backing, are considered to be moral… as how this activist Kejriwal in his statements doesn’t feel to justify his views as he thinks that he’s ‘obviously’ right….

    another aspect of more and more people associating with this movement I think is that in general people think that their lives are not making any difference to the larger picture and and when such an issue comes up , being a part of it gives them a superior moral ground, in the eyes of people around them… and they feel that now they are part of something meaningful… and this whole glamour and high sounding words of righteousness motivate them to join the movement without trying to analyse it…

    2. looking at how media have been reacting to this whole issue is again very amusing because they have to support the populist stand and not a single channel’s editor will objectively analyse the issue and his opinion will always be in accordance with the popular wave of opinion… it shows us the impotence of media here….

    3. and lastly it makes me deeply sad to see that not a single author, journalist or any other well known ‘intellectual’ or personality has come out and spoken rationally on the issue… everyone is lending support to it because it gets them popularity and public approval which would certainly make them more sellable…

  3. Lejoe John said

    Hazare Fasting is good may be a BILL will also come to life but will corruption stop NO .You must remember u and me live in a country were a person who killed 100 of Indians caught live on TV is still enjoying fresh air. Every Bill in this country or every law in this country can be challenged if you have killed 10 people u will get an advocate who will save you then whats the use of this bill.its of no use what ever you might come up with this corruption will go on if the father is caught doing corruption tomorrow the son will stand the election and will win and continue the corruption.Let me as this people if Sharad Pawar was corupted how he is still being reelected? hahahha what ever is happening might bring a law/\bill but it wont and never stop coruption,crime in India

  4. The article has screwed up the meaning of lokpal. If the lokpal were to be an autocratic, why did govt proposed it in 1968?

    Lokpal will not be monitoring all govt actvities but will look into the complaints of public with regards to corruption.

    Right now, PM and large section of political fraternity enjoys immunity. they cannot be arrested or prosecuted for crimes. I’ve not heard of any minister being prosecuted for crimes he/she has committed.
    3 minutes ago · Like
    Ravi S Ghosh Jan Lokpal bill aims to bring all the politicians under the law, make them stand equal to a common man when it comes to crimes.

    You want your government to be like a king with laws not allowed to prosecute them? or you want the rule of the law to be equal for each one on this land?

  5. Luis said

    Hear hear! :-)

  6. Jatin said

    @Ravi S Ghosh First of all let me clarify to you that this article is not about Lokpal Bill.

    this article is about ‘Jan Lokapal BILl’ that Anna Hazare and his allies are supporting, which demands tha one, single, non representative position, gets an authority to prosecute any public representative including the PM and government officials, suo motto or on public complaint and use police powers against them thereby giving judiciary and executionary powers to it.

    Now does that sound ‘autocratic’ to you or not?

    Do you want your government, your elected representatives and the officials at the mercy of this single authority which is more than a parallel power, it’s the supreme one. I don’t think that corruption even remains an important issue in that scenario because the repercussions of this will be far more dreadful.

  7. Pavan said

    Do you think the supreme court judge is acting in an autocratic way. Supreme court judge is also not an elected member and can oppose several things that the government is doing. There is a check in place, the president of India (who btw is the head commander of the sorts to Airforce,Naval and Army)can recall the supreme court judge. But still in my opinion the supreme court is doing a fairly decent job. And people agree on the power of Supreme court. But the problem is we need an investigating authority as powerful as the supreme court to investigate issues. As CBI has been found to be useless for this purpose the lokpal’s role is needed. People from Karnataka can relate to it well, Lokayukta Justice Santosh Hegde has done a commendable job, a job which should have been done by ACB, Police, CBI – which due to their political pressures are not able to do. It is just like giving more powers to Lokayukta and I am sure proper checks will be in place. [Disclaimer - I haven't read the proposed bills or demanded bill.]

  8. Thalak said

    No sir, the solution is NOT LESS AND LESS GOVERNMENT! But enough good, efficient, and honest
    governance, be it by the functionaries be it by the elected representatives. Hazare’s demand, I thnink, is worthy of at least being discussed about. I mean the modalities of the election of
    Jan Pal and its functioning. Itis not envisaged as an autocratic authority superseding Parlia-
    ment,the Supreme Court. We cannot say that it is not an elected body,it will be chosen/named
    proposed from the civil society and the two houses of elected representatives. It’s function is to “morally” force law enforcement bodies and legislators do their job honestly and with trans-parency. The whole rub is the very nature of the Indian society which functions on the sense of belonging to various caste/community/language/regional/religious groups! How to dispense with such feelings? Not for tomorrow, nor for the near future. But this is a beginning,hope,!!!

  9. Santishree D.Pandit said

    Less government is not the solution but honesty and integrity in public life. Free market of the Milton Friedman vaiety is not acceptable for it creates greater inequalities. I agree that Anna Hazare is an extra constitutional authority. His camapaigns in maharashtra have not been above board.There have been valid criticism of him being casteist and have been influenced by political donations. Corruption is an issue that the UPA is refusing to tackle but it cannot be replaced by extra constitutional authority.

  10. Dalip Daswani said

    A family which sits down to find solutions to family issues as an *integrated* family, rather than have rules unilaterally imposed by the patriarch or father, will be a happier family; certainly a less dysfunctional one.

    I would agree that “less Government” is what we ultimately need to aim for. Less authoritarianism and external influence will compel stake-holders to come to the negotiating table. This in time will promote greater social cooperation giving rise to a greater sense of self-worth, dignity and community harmony.

    The question is who will take the lead? (a) in bringing the members of the ‘family’ to sit together as a family, and (b) then facilitate talk and *listening* to each other, as a *true family*? The parent? An aunt or uncle? The elder sibling? The college-going daughter or son?

    What if one of these were to use emotional blackmail (a “fast unto death”) to do so? Would it, in the long run, bring about a *true spirit of dialog*?

  11. [...] Why You Should Not Support Anna Hazare’s LokPal Bill (ergosum.wordpress.com) [...]

  12. brissa said

    looks like its inspired from ayn rand shit.

  13. chalta said

    looks like capitalistic view of creating more oligarchies here…

  14. kshitiz said

    I don’t know whether Anna Hazare is protesting for right cause or not. If this LOKPAL bill authority will work exactly what people are expecting and take serious actions against corrupted politician then it will be absolutely a fine ending like KKKG. But if this authority itself gets into corruption, then there is no benefit of supporting this protest. But actually nobody knows what will be next milestone of this LOKPAL bill. Whether Anna able take this movement into its desired direction and destination, which may help in reducing corruption from India or he is doing this just to gain a good ample attention of society.
    Moreover I think corruption begins from a common man. We common people are equally responsible for rapidly increasing corruption in India. We are doing and supporting corruption endlessly. If we get caught while violating traffic rules, we people have nature to bribe policeman and get rid of that situation. All of us had bribed once or many times to get our job done from a licence inspector or from a govt official. A do agree that our corruption is much more minor then what our politicians are doing, but I think it is one of the same thing if you steal a candy from a shop or rob a bank, both acts are wrong.

  15. shiv said

    @kshitiz sorry man but I am fed up of hearing “corruption begins from a common man”. This is really not true. Actually Common man is pushed to corruption. Common an is not left with any other choice.

    What do you think, If for any reason I happen to violating traffic, I should pay 500rs of penalty instead of 50rs bribe.
    Why do you think so….
    Do you think this way the police man will stop corruption? or Do you think other common man will also pay 500 instead of 50rs bribe, because I did so?
    No… Every common man will think saving 450rs which will help him running his family expenses.

    Moreover If you pay 500 and get receipt, still you never know the receipt is original or not?? Because that police man is not the one who is doing corruption.. Actually he is also pushed into it by his seniors (probably who got authority to print those receipts)…

    So In my view the corruption can not be stopped starting “common man”. The only way to stop is to stop from top (i.e “powerful man”). That is what Anna is trying to do… Making powerful man feel like he is also a common man.

    —————————————————————–

    @Jatin – What is wrong if our elected ministers stand in-front of Jan lokpal authority. Why should they afraid if they are not corrupted. This is what happens with common man also.
    You being a common man, if you are called to a police station, don’t you think you are suppose to appear there (regardless of whether you are involved in any case or not). It is your duty to answer questions raised by the police man. When cores and cores of people respect this procedure, what is wrong in elected people to respect “jan lok pal authority (just a team of 10 people)”.
    In my view “Jan lok pal” is just a police station for “powerful/elected people”… If they are innocent then this police is there friend otherwise …. :) [I don't see reason to use word called "mercy" in your comment]

  16. ram said

    Good article. Anna Hazare’s movement while it may be well-intentioned, unfortunately lacks a proper philosophical base. For this reason, it will not sustain as a movement. What is the root cause of corruption? Unlimited power of the government over the lives of the economic life of the citizens, non-objective law and majoritarian politics. The only sustainable solution is to move towards proper framework of individual rights and limited government. There is no mention of any of this in Anna Hazare’s movement.

    • Efby Antony said

      In what way does it lack philosophical base? The citizens of the country are demanding transparency in the financial dealings of the government. Is that demand “philosophically challenged”?

      • ram said

        Yes. The movement lacks a philophical base. Simply demanding ‘financial transparency from the government’ is going to go nowhere and will not be sustainable. The root issue is ‘what should the government be dealing in’. Obviously, the huge statist structutre built up over all these years cannot be dismantled overnight. But we need to have a vision of a free society (political AND economic freedom: they go together)so that actions can be focused towards this. The issue is that while attempts to demand financial tranparency and accountability from the govt is indeed ncesssary, this is only a part, perhaps a small part. There has to an effort to redraw the boundaries of state action based on a proper political philosophy and a proper understanding of the role of government in a society. This is completely lacking in this movement.

      • Efby Antony said

        >>The root issue is ‘what should the government be dealing in’.
        ———–

        I already addressed this point. There is no disagreement that govt should privatize whatever could be privatized. That drive is already in progress since 1991. Recently even passport processing has been privatized, making it more efficient and corruption free.

        My question is, how to tackle the rampant corruption in the areas that cannot be privatized – like police, military, traffic control, land registration, city planning, judiciary etc? Most of the citizens face corruption in these areas.

  17. Efby Antony said

    >>This is simply creating an extra-governmental body to do the functions which a proper government should be doing anyway as part of its very reason for existing. When a government goes bad, one should not simply institute another government body on top of it! One should work to fix the current government we have.
    ———–

    That’s not true. If the elected politicians themselves are entrusted with dealing with their own corruption then how will it work? It is like trusting a thief to guard the treasury. To fix this issue, we need to ensure more transparency into the financial dealings by the common man. The citizens should be empowered to audit the financial dealings and punish the corrupt. Only with that level of transparency we can deal with the corruption.

    >>Moreover, Anna Hazare’s authoritative body can be susceptible to same risks of corruption and bribery that the central government is mired in.
    ——–

    True, that is the Lokpal members are required to have a fixed tenure. The allegations of corruption against the members should also be investigated, as per the bill.

    >>More importantly, however, his solution has the potential to produce a more insidious form of dictatorial corruption of power because of its non-elective, autonomous, and non-accountable nature.
    ———-

    Absolutely not, since the scope of the Lokpal will be only to investigate corruption and take action. They cannot create legislation or amend legislation. Lokpal will not have any control over any government policies. Lokpal will become relevant only when there is corruption.

    >>The government should have no role to play in cricket, commonwealth games, building metros, railways, banks, hospitals, religion, marriage, etc.
    ——-

    True, but what about police, military, traffic control, land registration, city planning etc? How do we deal with the rampant corruption in these areas?

    >>THE SOLUTION TO CORRUPTION: GET RID OF THE GOVERNMENT FROM PRIVATE MATTERS OF CITIZENS. Ask for LESS GOVERNMENT not MORE GOVERNMENT!
    ——

    So how do we deal with the rampant corruption in this “LESS GOVERNMENT”?

  18. Jerry said

    http://in.news.yahoo.com/blogs/opinions/rorschach-effect-indian-politics-053923332.html

    “Consider this man: He runs a village in rural Maharashtra as if it is his personal fiefdom, like an authoritarian feudal lord. He is a fan of Shivaji, and admires him for once chopping off the hands of a man who committed a crime. In that vein, he passes an order that anyone found drinking alcohol will be tied to a pole in front of the village temple and publicly flogged. Several men undergo this, one of whom, a vice sarpanch of the village, says: “I was drinking. I was … tied to the pole and flogged two-three times. It is normal. [He] will try to make you understand once or twice and thereafter, he will beat you badly.” He believes in “rigid implementation” of family planning, including forced vasectomies. Male labourers in his village are paid Rs 50 a day, while female labourers get just Rs 30. He supports Narendra Modi, and is politically active, routinely resorting to a form of blackmail known as threatening to fast unto death until his demands are met. He believes that corrupt people should be hanged — literally hanged to death. He is Anna Hazare.

    “if we are to tackle the root cause of corruption, then we should campaign against excess government power and discretion, starting with any particular domain that grabs our fancy.” — Amit Verma

  19. Jerry said

    http://in.news.yahoo.com/blogs/opinions/rorschach-effect-indian-politics-053923332.html

    “Consider this man: He runs a village in rural Maharashtra as if it is his personal fiefdom, like an authoritarian feudal lord. He is a fan of Shivaji, and admires him for once chopping off the hands of a man who committed a crime. In that vein, he passes an order that anyone found drinking alcohol will be tied to a pole in front of the village temple and publicly flogged. Several men undergo this, one of whom, a vice sarpanch of the village, says: “I was drinking. I was … tied to the pole and flogged two-three times. It is normal. [He] will try to make you understand once or twice and thereafter, he will beat you badly.” He believes in “rigid implementation” of family planning, including forced vasectomies. Male labourers in his village are paid Rs 50 a day, while female labourers get just Rs 30. He supports Narendra Modi, and is politically active, routinely resorting to a form of blackmail known as threatening to fast unto death until his demands are met. He believes that corrupt people should be hanged — literally hanged to death. He is Anna Hazare.

    “if we are to tackle the root cause of corruption, then we should campaign against excess government power and discretion, starting with any particular domain that grabs our fancy.” — Amit Verma

  20. Do we need Demo-crazy!
    Look at the Chinese, how fast they are growing, because they don’t have a stupid ,time wasting system called Demo-crazy.
    It’s a waste of resources and time to be in a system where Number are more important than Quality

  21. Tariq Adib said

    Hell yeah.
    Join my Facebook page: Say No to Anna and No to the Lokpal

  22. Joshy said

    Down with Anna and other jokers. I think the brain behind this dubious agitation is the father-son duo Bhushans who made good business out of PIL.

  23. Raj Kumar said

    Ya i agree with you…I am not against anti corruption but i don’t support Anna & his hunger strike. isse public mislead hoti hai…aur sbse jada loss public ka hi hota hai.

  24. i dont support lokpal at all
    in anna’s way ,,, what gov has allready given powers is more then enough … non elected members running bilateral gov along side which has power to take on gov picked by people isnt fair and anti democracy

  25. ashok kumar said

    main ashok kumar apni desh ki janta se apeel karta hu ki sabhi janta anna ji ke samarthan ke liye shantipurvak road pe aye or bhrasthachar ko khatam karne ke anna ji ka sath de
    hum jan lokpal bill ke liye supported hai

  26. Absolutely! Anna hazare shouldn’t hold the government to ransom by holding hunger strikes and putting his life at stake.In the end we should remember that we have elected the government which means we have faith in its policies and that the government can adopt policies which it feels is beneficial to the people.In case Anna hazare wishes to fight graft,then he should do it within the democratic framework of the nation.Why doesn’t he get elected, know what it means to be in power and then frame his own policies.He might set an example for other ministers to follow his path too.

  27. vinod rawat said

    I support Anna Hazare

  28. Mukesh Kumar said

    I Mukesh Kumar Support Anna Hazare for fighting against corruption
    I am with the team always.

  29. vinod Rawat said

    I support Anna Hazare and his team to fight against corruption
    and corrupted government of Manmohan Singh

  30. Raj Kashyap said

    “Justice (retd) PB Sawant, whose probe found that an amount of Rs2.2 lakh was diverted from Anna Hazare’s Trust for his birthday celebrations, today said this action amounted to “corruption.”…Anna and his team are not as clean as people think.

    • riya katiyar said

      The commission submitted its report on February 22, 2005 in which it indicted Hind Swaraj Trust for spending 2.20 lakhs of its funds on the birthday celebrations of Hazare finding it to be a “corrupt” practice……Anna ji jinke ghar sheshe ke hote hai wo light band karke kapde badalte hai

  31. Samita Singh said

    I agree with above statement. Anna you are also a part of corruption. Why u don’t submitted “audited accounts were not submitted to the Charity
    Commissioner for 1998-2002″

  32. Deep said

    Hmm…i think Anna & his team play a game with Indian Governments and just highlight in Indian Media. May be Anna Ji PM bnne ka sapna dekh rhe ho.

  33. Priya Singh said

    Justice (retd) PB Sawant, whose probe found that an amount of Rs2.2 lakh

    was diverted from Anna Hazare’s Trust for his birthday celebrations, today said this action amounted to “corruption.”

    • Efby said

      This is the oldest trick in the book to divert attention from the issue. Let’s say that this is actually true. Does that make the issue that Anna Hazare is upholding less valid? Let the govt pass a strong Jan Lokpal bill. And let the government investigate the charge against Anna Hazare and take legal action against him, if he’s found guilty. Why mix up these two issues?

      I as a citizen of India want a strong Jan Lokpal bill. And I want it irrespective of whether Anna Hazare is corrupt or not.

  34. Priya Singh said

    Hmm…i think Anna & his team play a game with Indian Governments and just highlight in Indian Media. May be Anna Ji PM bnne ka sapna dekh rhe ho. kabhi pura na hone denge hahahha

  35. Aashish Jadhavar, Advocate, Bombay High Court. said

    I’m not supporting Mr.Hazare., for the simple reason is that the means which he has adopted are unconstitutional. Let the legislature give free hands to do its job. A person who is not a Member of Parliament cannot force or compell legislature to act on his indivisual ideas. Our Constitution has taken a care to make available proper means through the channels of law.
    A person who is not having any knowledge about the basic structure of OUR GREAT INDIAN CONSTITUTION is just making some nonsense statemets about it. We are not with you Mr.Hazare.

    • Efby said

      There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional in motivating people to protest against corruption and observing a peaceful fast. Had legislature been doing its job then there would have been no need of this protest. We the Indians are fed up of corruption. We won’t tolerate it anymore. We want more power to audit the shady financial dealings of these members of legislature. Anna might not be so knowledgeable about the constitution, but team Anna has several competent members who are well versed with the constitution like justice Hegde. Anna is doing now what each Indian citizen should have done long back. We are with you, Mr Hazare.

  36. If none of the existing slew of institutions and government bureaucracies have been able to prevent and eliminate corruption, why do we expect unusual results from the Lokpal bill?!

    Read this article:

    http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2011/08/14/faq-why-is-anna-hazare-wrong-and-lok-pal-a-bad-idea/

    “We don’t need a Lok Pal at all. Making existing constitutional institutions—like CAG, CVC, CBI and the Election Commission—more independent will serve the purpose equally well. If we have been unable to prevent the politicisation and undermining of these instutitions why would we be able to prevent the Lok Pal from being politicised and undermined?

    If we can prevent Lok Pal from being politicised and undermined, why can’t we restore the independence and credibility of CAG, CVC, CBI and the Election Commission?”

    The fact of the matter is that Anna Hazare is a right-wing fascist who is holding a nation ransome to his dictats by going on a suicide-fast. This holds a nation and democractically elected government at ransom because all we need is someone who opposes Anna to go on a suicide fast as well. Then, who decides whose fast is “more” important? Or whose life is more important? Who gets to die of fasting first and whose demands are met?

    Anna Hazare has plunged this nation into anarchy.

    • Efby said

      Because the existing government bureaucracies are under the control of the govt. For example, CBI reports to the government. Then how can it independently take action against the corrupt ministers? Going on a fast is the most peaceful form of protest, which is fully consistent with the democratic principles and ideals.

      The very fact that millions of people support Anna Hazare’s fast shows how important this struggle is for the Indians.

      • Did you even read my comment? If you did, then what’s your response to what I said:

        What happens when two opposed Gandhians go on a “peaceful” hunger strike till death for their mutually opposite versions of some law that they want to enact?

        This is anarchy at its most raw and visible form.

        If the CVC and the CBI report to the government, then why do you think changing reporting structure is going to reduce corruption? Merely changing reporting loyalties says nothing about the change in power structure, especially when both “bosses” have far-reaching impact and powers.

      • Efby said

        The answer was already there in my previous comment. You try to go on a hunger strike based on Gandhian principles against Jan Lokpal bill. No body will even care about your hunger strike and and eventually you’ll be evacuated and forcibly hospitalized. And still nobody will care. That’s what happens to hunger-strikes that don’t strike a chord with the people’s grievances, in a democracy. Whereas in case of extremely relevant issues like that of Hazare, millions of people will support it and force government to consider it.

        We are not “merely changing reporting structure”. We will now have people’s representatives independently auditing the financial dealings of the public servants. Did you read how these representatives will be chosen? Please go ahead and read team Anna’s draft. The idea is, more power to the people, and more accountability to the public servants.

    • Jaai said

      Very well said. Perfetly put. (I mean the original comment.)

  37. Beulah said

    Our freedom fighters take vows against liquors, foreign goods and foreign clothes.

    But Anna Hazare’s supporters vows to express thhttp://ergosum.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/why-you-should-not-support-anna-hazares-lokpal-bill/#comment-form-load-service:Twittereir supporting voice and to take a protest march, to light up candles and to light off bulbs, to pick up a badge in facebook….

    Will they dare to take a vow to hold back their own hands against bribing and corrupting?

  38. Beulah said

    Our freedom fighters take vows against liquors, foreign goods and foreign clothes.

    But Anna Hazare’s supporters vows to express their supporting voice and to take a protest march, to light up candles and to light off bulbs, to pick up a badge in facebook….

    Will they dare to take a vow to hold back their own hands against bribing and corrupting?

  39. I was pleasantly surprised and happy when it all started in mid-April and even wrote an article to support Anna. But was totally disappointed as and when things progressed. It is becoming a trend to go on a hunger strike if government does not admit certain demands. Not only this, there have been talks of making a new bill and we are assured that it will eradicate corruption. Had it been the case, we already have enough laws in place for years which all have failed. The issue is with the system which needs to be cleaned first. Corruption is in root of all of us. Those who get bigger chance earn much and common man earns less. Someone said above that since the traffic constable takes 50/- instead of a fine of 500/-, he pays it to save money. The same constable will start taking 20/- if fine is reduced to 50/- and will you go to lokpal for 20/- ? I doubt…
    And, even if it saves some money, why to pay? Why to blame that constable for corruption? Why not the payer is also corrupt? And, for that matter why to break a law so that the constable gets hold of you? Isn’t it also a form of corruption?
    Do you support Anna? Really?? Why???
    Just like that…

  40. Those who think Anna Hazare’s tactics are peaceful do not have a clue about who their hero is. He is the man who encourages punishing alcoholics in his village by flogging them in public; he condones chopping off hands of thieves; he believes cable television should be banned because of its “corrupting” influence on the people. Here is an excerpt from an interview with Anna Hazare:

    “…in many things, along with Gandhi we have to look towards Shivaji. Patel committed a mistake, and Shivaji had the man’s hands cut off. This policy of Chhatrapati, in many ways, we have to think about. Hundred per cent non-violence is not possible. Sometimes, even this has to be done, and that is why I have been saying that [corrupt] people should be hanged…” Anna

    Read more of where this came from: Open Magazine’s brilliant article “Spare Us the Gandhian Halo.”

    http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/voices/spare-us-the-gandhian-halo

    Also join the Facebook group: Against Anna Hazare

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/againstannahazare/

    • Efby said

      The struggle that we’re talking about is not about passing a law to flog the alcoholics or anything of that sort. The issue in context is about passing the Jan Lokpal bill. And that’s what we want. What is the relevance of what he does in the village, here? If he does bad things then investigate it and punish him. Why mix it up with Jan Lokpal bill?

      Are you saying that we should allow a toothless Jan Lokpal bill to be passed, because Anna does bad things in his village?

  41. JaiLKKhosla said

    I agree in principle. Hazare might be a well-meaning honest man, or not – but he is definitely not an elected official. In India, the Parliament reigns supreme, even if it passes imperfect laws. If Hazare wishes to have an effective ombudsman bill, he should run for office, get elected to the Parliament, and then rally behind the bill to his heart’s content. If he really is as popular as everybody says, getting elected should not be a problem. These short-cut gimmicks do set a dangerous precedent.

    But I disagree that replacing an ineffective Government with a profit-driven free-market is the answer either. Our Govt., however clunky and frustrating its workings, still has policies in place to better the lot of nearly 42% of the population, who would otherwise make for poor customers from a profit-making perspective. The answer, like someone said earlier, is not less government, but a more efficient and accountable one.

  42. Jaai said

    Very true. If only all those slogan-shouting people went out to vote. The silliness of the Lokpal:

    http://veronicaunadulterated.blogspot.com/2011/08/superflous-and-dangerous-institution.html

    • Lata Tauro said

      Voting is still limited to choosing between the political parties that are there. If most of the people in various parties are corrupt, voting has no effect on this. However the JLB seeks to bring accountability to the voted representatives without interfering with its running in other ways. The Lokpal will have no powers except to go after corrupt officials, that too after due process. What is the harm in that?

  43. A writer with the following IP address and information posted a highly obscene comment with expletives. People who cannot voice disagreement with intelligence and grace will have to risk exposure of IP details and report of abuse.

    IP Information for 196.15.16.20

    IP Location:

    India Bangalore Oracle-in

    ASN: AS38538

    Resolve Host: apac-nc06-e0a.oracle.co.in

    IP Address: 196.15.16.20

  44. sunil a noronha said

    I think people are just fed up with corruption at all levels.
    There is a limit to everything.
    And the lack of governance, accountability and helplessness and no choice or solution in sight.
    Lets take this opportunity to move forward n get something done here.

  45. sapna said

    Anna Hazare wants to institute yet another government and bureaucratic body (a non-elected one) to monitor the current, elected government. which will also get corrupted in india.

  46. Chris Joys said

    As much as i think that the cause of Anna is wonderful, the method is unacceptable. Corruption starts from below. If you are not ready to pay a bribe, slowly but eventually it will come down. Also to promise a country “free” of corruption is just bullshit. Corruption happens wherever there is convenience. Anyone with a hundred bucks in his/her pocket to spare would pay the licence authority to get their drivers licence made as fast as possible. At some level, EVERYONE is corrupt. When restrictions are converted into opportunities as a rent, a bribe is born. Also if you truly support this cause then be able enough, be honest, go about everything the right way. If i may ask, how many of us buy only original music cds and movies. Where, for your own convenience, you download a song or a movie over the internet, or buy a pirated cd, you are unknowingly yes, but sadly doing corruption. And drawing parallels between the likes of Gandhiji and Mr. Hazare is just plain nonsense and should not be done. For one, Gandhiji was never someone who would wine and dine in the company of the likes of baba ramdev. All being said and done, the only thing that i would like to say is what the mahatma once said – “Be the change you want to see in this world.” Only then can we raise our fingers on the politicians. Only then can we whine about being oppressed by corruption.

    • Efby said

      Think practically. You need a home to live. If the land registration office insists that you cannot register your home unless you pay the bribe, what will you do? Will you abandon your plan to have a home of your own?

      Or you take a bank loan to start a company. The corrupt official refuses to give you a clearance unless you pay bribe. So what do you do? Will you risk your entire investment and refuse to pay bribe?

      And there are lots of people who’re happy to give the bribe. The criminals are happy to pay bribe to get the charges dropped. The land sharks are happy to pay bribes to get their shady deals approved.

      In real world, we face hundreds of scenarios like this. It is naive to say that if you stop paying the bribe the corruption will come down. Reality is much more complex than that.

      • Chris Joys said

        Efby I totally understand what you are talking about. I am not denying the fact that people are oppressed, i know they are helpless. And neither am i defending the politicians. I am just contemplating on the fact that without removing the piece of wood from my eye, I dont have the right to point out the speck of dust in someone else’s eye. Without removing the roots of corruption from our own minds we cannot protest against and fight against corruption on a higher level. I know downloading an mp3 cannot be compared to an official asking for a bribe so that one can have a living. But efby, if breaking a traffic light ows me a challan of Rs. 500, wont i try to get away from it by giving Rs. 200 instead as a bribe? I can most assuredly say that if not more, 95% of us would do the same. As i already said this cause is wonderful and something must be done about it. The only thing i am saying is that if I am corrupt, can i point my fingers at some other corrupt man and say that he is guilty? What is more important to change? The structure or the core? If the bill does what it advocates to do, trust me, there wont be a happier person than me. But “Even If” the team anna is totally honest, truthful and dedicated, do you think the structure hence created would be spotless? What happens when a new team comes up? What are the chances that the intentions of the bill wont get polluted in the future. And does anyone have any clue what might happen if a body checking the most powerful body in the country gets infested by the same evils it aims at eradicating? Supporting a mass movement in the spur of the movement is very natural. But barely does anyone think of the possible consequences. And do you think this country can handle yet another powerful corrupt body?

  47. Shubham said

    Its really pathetic and disturbing to see articles like this. Surely it is followed by those who stand in support of corruption and is practicing it in one or the other way. They fear that such institution will create trouble for them in filling their pockets.
    Today, when India calls for a united action against corruption, people like you divert the attention of masses in a different way.

    Go and see the condition of rural India today. You will find how helpless they are before this fatal system. The so called Mukhia’s loot the villagers. none of the system is clean and tidy. I bet in my village itself government money is looted in form of NREGA.
    Please understand that this corruption is taking India and Indians nowhere.. Its hampering India’s growth story.

    As far as Anna’s campaign is concerned and his demand for a strong lokpal is concerned, it was very much required at the moment. And its not threatening Democracy, its strengthening it.

    We people just have a tendency to sit at our homes, and just blame politics if something bad is happening. But today if you consult even a small child of 14 yrs old, “Beta, Do you want to join politics”? He will reply, “No i dont, Politics is cheap and dirty. My papa asks me to stay out of it”. Friends if you cant make a system clear through participation i request you to atleast support campaigns like this. The old 74 yrs man has lived his life and only dreams of a corrupt free India, and then people like you don’t show him your participation. This is painful. You dont have a right to ask for a corrupt free life of your children.

    Tell me where the Jan Lokpal bill is wrong, http://screensnapr.com/v/K1ByGj.png

    Isnt Prime minister an Indian citizen like we are. Does the tag of PM, makes him corrupt free. If PM is excluded, shouldnt the CM’s be excluded?

    Govt Lokpal bill says, if complains goes fault, then the complainer can be fined and punished! wowww..

    Today, when MPs are found guilty in cases of corruption, Govt asks public servant institutions for a complete report. I remember recently CWG report was presented in the parliament regarding CWG scam. Before that Shunglu Committete report, before that some Justice sen or something…. and goes on. All the reports exposed corruption, all blamed some of the other political leaders and all, but the govt. said, on the basis of such reports we cant take any action. To this i say, why was public money wasted on making such reports if they hold no ground for taking actions against accused.

    Today, this movement has got the support of millions of people because they have completely lost their faith in proper and tidy governance.
    The bill is opposed by MP’s – No need to point of why!
    The bill is opposed by some philosophers – They find a body with superpowers above democratic principles.

    But such body is required a lot today to put these politicians in chains.In a country where is no “Mai – Baap” of cases like Chara Ghotala such strict body can only bring some change.

    The Indian Judiciary is independent body, and that has added jewels to Indian democracy. Why dont you find anyone questioning Judiciary even when it is above democratic principles?

    Anyways, a whole hearted support to Anna ji.. I request you not to misguide people.

    Jai Hind! Jai Bharat!

  48. [...] http://ergosum.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/why-you-should-not-support-anna-hazares-lokpal-bill/ Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. Tagged: anna Posted in: Archives ← Of the few, by the few Be the first to start a conversation [...]

  49. Vijay said

    Anna and his team have not shown any evidence of their understanding of the mechanism of fully entrenched mechanism used for doing corruption with impunity.
    Corruption in India is a kind of exploitation. The money collected by the Govt in the form of tax should be ploughed back for the welfare of the society and used for the Social sector such as education, health and welfare of weaker section. It is the way of implementing the socialism as envisaged in the preamble of the constitution of the republic. In corruption, the money, that has to be spent on the social sector is siphoned off into private accounts. The real motivating force behind the corruption is the apathy or even contempt for the concept of socialism .
    What kind of people we are? How Nationalist are we, if, a loss making Nationalized industry becomes a profit earning unit after privatization.

    People at the apex of social hierarchy are in a position to make corruption of unimaginable proportion. There are clear indicators for demarcating exploiter Castes and the exploited castes. As long as this demarcation is not removed by radical inclusiveness,
    Corruption would continue to exist. Unless the true representative exploited Caste and tribes people are involved in the policy making and executive bodies, plundering of the National resources in the form of corruption will not stop.
    Taking a postmodernist view of the situation in a Chaturvarna based society will not help to understand the mechanism of corruption in our society. Lokpal or Janlokpal will not make any difference to it.

  50. SAMPSON KANTHARAJ said

    I agree with your statements that any individual or a single group of like minded people cannot be given the power to rule over a legitimately elected government. In fact the frenzy is created by the media. There is corruption and its there from centuries. I am not saying don’t do anything about it but be patient in solving a problem of centuries. Give theGovernment some time.

    This man is Crazy, He talks literally like a dictator! He openly says “Yes, we will black mail the government” i personally feel the RSS & the right wing people are playing a major role to topple the Government. Corrective measures have already been inforced into some sections of Government such as Telephone, RTO (at least in Karnataka I don’t have to bribe to get a licence). Mr Nilekani, the other day appreciated the politicians to stating that there are many hard working politicians and you you are wrong to single out politicians, for there are corrupt executives, industrialist and other people as well , including institutions and teachers. Let Anna tell us where corruption is non-existing. Are all the Media people Holy? THIS IS PROBLEM IS BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION. PLEASE MELLOW DOWN!. Lokayukta has done a splendid job in Karnatka but the same institution has been under the shadow of doubt in Delhi. Does any institution however truly and honestly created guarantee of not becoming corrupt by itself? We have the Largest constitution. Have we become the Best country by virtue of it? For every law you make people will find a lope hole. It is the heart of man which has to change. Not just some stupid piece of legislature. EDUCATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT TO CHANGE OF THIS ATTITUDE is what is required. Have you seen liquor ADDs disguised as ADDs for Soda? Doen’t the Media Know it ? They don’t talk because the advertisers have found a legal lope hole and there is money in it (for a puritican this may aswell be corruption). Our Government is doing great things, The world is looking towards India! But our own people by raising this issue in such a alarming way have caused our country and the government more harm than good.

    I WANT MORE VOICES RAISED AGAINST THIS MOVEMENT!

    Initiate a National debate, Yes Let us also know What exactly the opposition SOLUTIONS to this MENACE. i it solved our problem. For every law we make , people find many loop holes. Have seen those ADS which promote liquor in the garb of SODA? The first quality of a Gandhian

  51. [...] http://ergosum.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/why-you-should-not-support-anna-hazares-lokpal-bill/ [...]

  52. What you said about Anna Hazare could be true. I also do agree with you. But your argument on “not more government, but less government” may not be a good suggestion. Yes, government should minimise their role. They dont need to play cricket or such matters. But they have a greater role in strengthening the nation’s social infrastructure, especially, health and education. No private entrepreneurs can do it at its best at least in India. See, most of the developed nations of today are the best examples in this regard. See, one cannt see, health and education as ‘products’. so it wont be suitable for marketing. And no competition is possible. A good government only can do best in these areas. So kindly exclude, at least these two but most important sectors from your list of areas, where the government do not have any role to play.

    Good Luck!

  53. i doubt whether the article posted by Ergo on ” Why You Should Not Support Anna Hazare’s LokPal Bill” on April 7, 2011 are written in a drunken state or not? i think he written it in drunken state. so his brain was not working properly

  54. kukkumol said

    yes it is matter of celebration for INDIA…Anna Jai Ho..Kanoon banne ka rasta saaf hua.. sabhi indians ko dil se savikaar karna chahia our aaj se hi individual selfish lalsa #$%$ kar aam zindigi mein corruptin avaidh lain dain se aapne aap ko door rakheinge.

  55. Anna ji ki Jai ho
    Congress ka NASH Ho

    you shud be happy that at-least someone is working for the country and it’s people not for any party.

  56. sonali said

    well i dont wanna criticize any1…..n m nt talking abt ev1 but alot of ppl following Anna Hazare, dont even know what is he doing n what the lokpal bill is n why dey r following him!
    n i agree…..when a gov. goes bad…one should nt make another gov. body on it but shoud try to fix d one we have!
    JAI HIND :)

  57. Palash said

    Completely Ridiculous when the whole country believes in him then pessimistic and cynical minded people like this guy call him a dictator !!!!!!!

  58. I hate corruption in all forms and sizes, but I dont support Anna Hazare and his methods.

    I extend a warm invitation to all to my blog (link given below)

    http://thought-lab.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-i-dont-support-prevalent-anti.html

    Regards
    Krishna

  59. devika said

    Omg,, so much about corruption,, i was actually goin through all tes to prepare for my seminar in college on on the topic “corruption free india 2025″.. i guess its nt possible for india to get rid of corruption by 2025 if,,, each nd evry citizen has to stop briibing and stuff,, but i wanna telll a simple thing,, is it tat many developed countries are corruption free?… no i guess evn u can find corruption der,,, but tos corruption are so much limited tat it doesnt affect the country in a big way,,not lik the way this CWG and 2G Scam affected india and left us wit an heart attack,,, evrything has good nd bad,pros and cons,, all v need to do,, is to balance it,,v cannot stop each citizen of india frm corruption but we can stop,, big corruptions through strict laws…i think anna needs a practical way of thinkin…… if i was anna for instance,, i wud hav entered politics,, thru any means of way,, and wen once i reach the powerfull position,, more enuf,, to reveal all the secrets behind my position and ten wud wud hav startd sumthing lik tis,,, protest and all tes.. it is worthy to die in this way(after revealin all secrets i knw i will b burried alive) rather than blackmailin govt. lik tis,,,, :)

  60. Sagar said

    People are realizing now that this Anna chap was just doing timepass. It was just a crisp news, which did only one good thing. It united Indians on a large scale in huge parks in various cities. Corruption is all in our head. Neither Anna, nor anyone else can remove this. Its actually anti-Congress march which he has started. And one more thing, sad news for Anna. Somebody should tell him, that he can never be the second Gandhi. He tried so hard for it. There are videos and evidences which shows that Anna never really went on a hunger strike. He used to live on fruit juices and glucose. Any patriot will die, but not take a sip of water into his/her mouth during hunger strike, including Gandhijji.

  61. afdadf said

    i dont have much knowledge abut politics, but as common man i m supporting anna because what i can see is a simple thing, a politician came to power and he does whatever he wants to do it, he makes lots of money and when get he get caught nothings happens to him. not only he makes money but his whole family get rich.this government is giving us bullshit for years, all Indian people knows that finance minister was failed in his job, he put the country in the shit, and instead of get rid of him they made him president of the country. this is bullshit its a big slap on face for Indian people. i am from Australia here ruling party got rid of their on PM because he couldn’t run the country this is how it should be.

  62. Hello There. I found your blog the use of msn. That is an
    extremely smartly written article. I’ll make sure to bookmark it and return to learn extra of your useful information.
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